Interview with Greg Nelson
FS: Tonight we have with us Master Fight Instructor, Greg Nelson, who has trained with the best of the best in the martial arts fighting world. Greg Nelson is a former U of M Wrestling Team member and an All-American high school gymnast. Since starting his martial arts training in 1983, Mr. Nelson has earned Full Instructor Credentials in Jun Fan Martial Arts/Jeet Kune Do Concepts, the Filipino Martial Arts, and a Level III Instructor in Maphilindo Silat under Guro Dan Inosanto. Mr. Nelson is also a top Instructor in Muay Thai under Ajarn Chai Sirisute of the Thai Boxing Assocaition of the USA. A grappler at heart, Nelson earned the level of Advanced Student in Shoot Wrestling under Sensei Yurinaga Nakamura, and Greg is a certified Instructor in Combat Submission Wrestling under Erik Paulson. Most recently Greg was awarded his Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu under professor Pedro Sauer. Mr. Nelson is the only active Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt in Minnesota, and is one of only a handful in the United States.
FS: Greg you began your athletic training in wrestling and gymnastics. Do you feel that these training methods complemented one another and did these methods allow you to make an easy transition into your other martial arts styles?
Greg Nelson: Yes, definitely. What I was doing in junior high and high school allowed for an easier cross over. For example; when I was in gymnastics I was in peak physical condition as far as flexibility and endurance. The gymnastics training helped me to develop specific strengths and balance compared to others in wrestling, who relied mainly on running and weight lifting. The gymnastics required a great deal of coordination and I was competing in every event, which allowed for a more well rounded development of skills.
FS: So, Greg, do you presently use some of those training techniques that you used in your earlier days?
Greg Nelson: Yes, I actually do a lot more than I used to when I first got into the martial arts. I do a lot more wrestling and take down training right now as the guys do more drills than I did when I was wrestling and so now a lot of those drills I did do... I’m now bringing them back into the academy but I have different emphasis because now they are being down in the kind of a mentality of a different art and goal in mind. Instead of a pin, our goal is submission. Instead of a take down just for the points, you also take down a person and get into a very controlled position. And the gymnastics has the mental aspects of training, which has really crossed over. When you are a gymnast you are always concentrating on form and technique and making sure that every little motion….you know, you are concentrating on it. When you are doing martial arts and you have that same mentality that you have to have that technique that you really have to fight for that form and focus and concentrate. It definitely crosses over to the martial arts.
FS: So, you still use some of those techniques that you used in your early training today then?
Greg Nelson: Yes, definitely. As far as wrestling goes, pretty much all the stand up stuff I still do, and then the ability to control a person on the ground – that’s where wrestlers really have a good base is that they have such good ground control. And again it’s strength that you can’t get from anything else.
FS: Do you feel that some of the Eastern martial arts are better systems of fighting, or do you feel the Western fighting is better, or do you feel the combination of both is the best?
Greg Nelson: I think it’s always going to be a combination because there are certain techniques that we’ve gotten from the Southeast Asian martial arts and the Japanese martial arts, even Chinese martial arts that focus on entirely different aspects of fighting than would be here, which would be boxing and wrestling basically. Boxing and wrestling are a very physical attribute oriented. It is similar with Thai boxing as well, but you don’t see as many people concentrating on the muscular development through weight training and stuff like that as you do here. They concentrate more on the mental aspects of the martial arts which in the other two sports; they are very much a part of those but aren’t talked much about or emphasized in training.
FS: Now you have also trained with Yurinaga Nakamura and that was in Shoot Wrestling. I really haven’t seen very much about him, so can you tell us a little about Yuri and his background?
Greg Nelson applyies a punishing rear head lever-lock
Greg Nelson: Yes, basically Yurinaga came to the United States primarily to do Jun Fan Martial Arts and Jeet Kune Do concepts because he was really kind of a fanatic about Bruce Lee. And so he came here initially with the intention to train with Guro Dan just for that. And it wasn’t until two years later that Yuri showed Shoot Wrestling to Dan Inosanto. He was so involved in training with the Bruce Lee system of fighting that he didn’t even think of showing that Shooto stuff.
FS: What are your impressions of Yuri’s fighting and instruction then?
Greg Nelson: Just about everything for Dan Inosanto. You looked at his ability and think wow this is really something. And it’s because it is so nice the way they systematized the fighting arts. They would have specific fighting flows for different positions, and that’s how they trained. In addition to training hard like Thai boxers, but then they had the mentality or the Japanese mindset which is really kind of ABC, must be ABC so they had it very technical in that respect. Plus with Yuri, everybody thinks about the grappling, but he’s also a phenomenal striker, even like Erik Paulsen said, his striking on the ground is more dangerous than his submissions on the ground. And that’s just another aspect of Yuri that people don’t see. Because he just doesn’t dwell so much in the lock flow stuff taht they don’t get to see that other aspect of him. He definitely has left a big impression on Guro Dan. Pretty much because that was the first after Larry Hartsel showed the basics of grappling and stuff, Yuri was really about grappling and so he helped to open the doors a little more toward the grappling arts, a little before the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu phase.
FS: You had a strong base in grappling, so to you it was a natural attraction to study with Yuri as well then, right?
Greg Nelson: Yes. Before that even I studied with Larry Hartsel who would also do more grappling in his training because he was a bigger and stronger person that he would bring the grappling aspect into the Jun Fan Martial Arts. From the kick boxing to the trapping then he would have all sorts of avenues to get to the ground, and even bringing up elements of the stick on the ground and using the same techniques and moves that they did empty handed now he would use a stick. It really added to the game. Having both a wrestling base really helped to prepare for what Larry showed and then shooto and then now Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Submission Wrestling.
FS: You talked about how Yuri was attracted to Jun Fan Martial Arts and Jeet Kune Do, how about yourself: what attracted you to those arts?
Greg Nelson: At the beginning I looked at a lot of books and how those books like the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and other books on Bruce Lee. All of a sudden I’m looking at them and thinking there is a lot of stuff here that I can use.
With Yuri and the grappling and my base in wrestling, I did naturally gravitate toward the grappling arts, even though I did the other ones, there is also that grappler that was always inside. But there is a discipline difference and for about two years I didn’t do any grappling arts. I just concentrated on weaponry and on the trapping and the striking aspects of the arts, because I already had 11 years, maybe more like 13 years of a base in wrestling. So I just totally stopped wrestling just so I could focus my learning and not always resort to my grappling if I needed to.
FS: Well it makes a lot of sense. Do you believe there are any inherent strengths or weaknesses in grappling versus striking?
Greg Nelson: Oh yes, definitely. Obviously striking deals with more of a hand range and foot range drop, self-defense situation or sport whatever you are doing. But once you get to the clench, now there is a whole different game being taken care of with hip throws and stuff like that when you are clenching one another. That’s going to be more of the hip throws and sweeps and stuff like that. So now at that range, the judo guy or wrestler is now going to be the king. Once he gets on the ground a lot of the punching and how you get your power from your hips and the kicking and all that is now eliminated for the most part, if they are in a grappling situation. Now the grappling is totally what is better. Again the person on the bottom gets up and makes space, now that changes things and the striker has the advantage and so each area definitely has its strengths and weaknesses. Another thing that a lot of people lost is the essence of straightforward no nonsense self-defense. And once you consider that with eye pokes and knees and elbows and biting and doing whatever you can do to win, once you get on the ground that is not always the best place to be. Because now instead of a mat, there is tar, or cement with rocks and glass or whatever else is there, and once that comes into play now grappling might not be the best thing. So I even address that in a lot of my classes where you are on your back and if you’re thinking self-defense you should think your goal is to roll or sweep or reverse the position so that you are on top. Because now it’s just not your back on a mat but your back is on tar, so it makes a difference with elbows, knees and all that stuff scraping on the cement is not a good thing!
FS: So someone is going to learn his or her lesson once, and hopefully not have to do this again?
Interview with Greg Nelson
Greg Nelson: Yes, and we’ve had people who have tried it and have lost in nonsense situations where they never would have had to use it. Another avenue, however, is now it’s coming to the point where we are going to have snow and ice on the ground for six months or whatever. Now grappling is a very good thing to think about because if you punch or kick or do anything it is more of a likelihood that you are going to slip or fall to the ground and now you have the ability to know it by a person’s offense at least and that will make a big difference in your self-defense. Another area that I haven’t heard addressed is when you are doing Jiu Jitsu you always are wearing a Gi, which sometimes is a little bit hindering, it hinders your movements. Well that’s exactly the same feeling you are going to have if you are outside in jacket in the winter time; it’s going to constrict your movement. So by doing grappling with the Gi on all the time, you become used to that and therefore you would be able to move better and not feel like you are already tied up because you are used to having a jacket on all the time.
FS: Well that is real interesting….you bring the person’s environment into the fighting situation, and I really haven’t heard anyone talk much about that before. Now you mentioned Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and you were trained by Pedro Sauer and this must have been an incredible honor for you. Can you describe this experience because I understand that you were his first black belt?
Greg Nelson: Yes, I wasn’t his first satellite school, though. I met Professor Pedro Sauer when I was in Virginia Beach at Frank Cucci’s school. Right away I saw that he taught different than the other Brazilians that I practiced with. A lot of the Brazilians would do a move and they would say, that’s perfect, ok you got it, that’s good. So you can walk away and have a lot of mistakes but you never got corrected. The first time I saw Pedro he was demonstrating a move and I did it, and he says okay, we have to stop right here move your hip here, move your foot here, now position your body here, now the technique works! He does that with every move and what he does is personalize the technique to the person’s body structure, their size and obviously their ability to move at different coordination levels. What happens is that he gets down on the ground and actually works with you. This guy is something different; this is definitely different. So I dove headfirst with going into the Jiu Jitsu training and I started wearing a uniform full time. Whereas before I did not. What I think is a little bit better for someone like myself and other people who aren’t directly being taught under him is that when he comes here to do a seminar, we get a certain amount of moves and then that’s what we have for the next few months of practice—just drill those moves over and over and over and over until the next time we get something else. Plus the other training that we have. So by being taught in that manner, it really forces you to go over those moves because you don’t have someone on the outside telling you no, you have to do this or that. So I think it has definitely helped my game by forcing us to really think about and evaluate, take apart every move, and see how we can make it easier. Then Pedro comes back and now here’s 20 counters to those moves, and so then we’d go right back and do the same thing, so he was really awesome in that respect of being taught. In addition to that he is now a 6th degree black belt under Helio and Rickson Gracie, which being directly outside of the Gracie family, I don’t know if there is anybody that high in the world in that rank. There may be, I’m not sure, but who has not grown up in the family…be it cousins or brothers. Getting a belt under him is definitely an honor because he really tries to stick to those techniques you should know and these are the techniques for the next belt that’s what you have to know, etc. If he comes to test you and you don’t have those, he’ll say why don’t you wait another month because you just can’t do the techniques. That makes people like myself train harder. We have to think about those moves constantly: are we doing them correctly? Another thing that was really neat about Professor Sauer is that he is a smaller guy maybe 150-160 pounds. So he had to be technical in training because he was partnering against 200 pound and up opponents, he had to have a better technique because you are not going to be as strong. That has also floated right into our training: the technique that he had, the concentration on form was huge. That crossed over as well. I really make all students think about what they are doing and why they are doing it. Not just doing a move, but showing them why you are doing it and when the right time to do it. That’s how I was taught. You are usually going to teach somewhat like your instructor teaches and Professor Sauer’s is a fantastic role model in that respect. He’s also concerned about the character development, which a lot of different instructors in schools don’t really adhere to. They don’t really care. Some of those people can do the moves pretty good on the ground and be a good grapplers, but then their attitude, moral code isn’t developed. Pedro is trying to bring that back into the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
FS: It’s interesting to hear you talk about the moral and character development, and you obviously feel very strongly about that. I know from talking to your students, they also have spoken very highly of you for instilling in them good moral character. So you are trying not to make them just a better fighter, but a better person all the way around?
Greg Nelson: Yes. I always look at the martial arts like a pyramid. On the very top is the smallest part, and that’s going to be your technique. And that’s also equated to an iceberg; it’s the only thing you see. The next level under that are the attributes. You can’t look at another person and see if they are fast or slow or strong, do they have fantastic timing and endurance because their bodies don’t tell that. You can sometimes guess but that might be a bad thing. Underneath the attributes come training methods. These methods are going to develop the attributes so they are going to make your techniques work. And then underneath training methods are the character qualities of a person: persistence, consistency, hard work ethic, respect, gratitude, the whole focus on concentration, diligence, all those things that really define who you are. If you have developed that foundation (disciple, diligence, persistence, patience, etc.), you will be able to do the training methods and endure the training longer which is going to develop your attributes to a higher level, which is going to make those techniques work more and more. The more time you spend and the more disciplined is going to roll up that pyramid. It will allow you to do your training method more so you can get the same attributes built up even more, and the techniques are going to get sharper and sharper. But still on the top you may not have zillions of techniques, you will still have a lot but what people are going to see more than anything is how you move. How gracefully you move, how much power they see in your motion. I read a quote and it said a master will show himself in everything he does. So when you see a person striking, you’ll see that person moving that stick around so well. Then all of a sudden he’s grappling and you’ll see that person doing that well. But every one of those things took years and years to develop. Without that foundation of character, that’s never going to happen. I asked Guro Dan Inosanto at a seminar many years ago because he shows nice stick and dagger stuff to anybody that comes to the seminar. I said, all these things you are teaching. What if someone who has bad intentions was going to use these techniques? He said, that means that they are going to have train for years and years and years and generally those type of people do not have a defining fine character like that so they don’t develop because they don’t put their time in. Because they basically cheat, they are not disciplined; therefore he can show them stuff because he knows it takes years and years of training to make it work. So he’s not afraid of that happening. The second thing that he said that if a person is going to hurt you, they are going to hurt you whether they know something or not. It doesn't matter because that’s the way they are. So if you show them something they aren’t generally going to do it anyway. They can just pick up a bat and hit you. Because that’s the kind of person they are. If that’s their motivation, they are going to do something pretty drastic because if the person wants to attack them, most likely the majority of them won't have the skill base to stop someone who is trained. Once a person crosses that line, then I would use my martial arts skills. If they attacked my kids, my wife, or someone who cannot defend themselves, I would probably fight them with my self-defense training. But if someone goads me or calls me names, I would say, whatever you’re the toughest guy in the world, that’s fine, I won’t fight you---because I know who I am and how long I’ve trained, what I can do and so I don’t have to show it. Generally the majority is training myself, my character, who I am as far as those qualities I described and martial arts is how I choose to do that. Other people do other sports and whatever. I think martial arts brings out a different quality because it is kind of inherent in all martial arts training to talk about respect and focus, and concentration, all those things. Generally in a lot of sports they don’t talk about that. Usually they say, go practice and wham. So it’s a different mentality as far as martial arts goes.
FS: Now do you look to take someone that’s on the wrong path spiritually in your school and to try to develop them morally also?
Greg Nelson: Well, what I do with that is first of all when people come in, I train them in the martial arts. I look at the martial arts like an athlete would look at a sport. In the beginning levels I teach that person the techniques and the training methods to develop their bodies first. Usually if they stay and develop that character to endure and continue to train and what not then the martial arts just by themselves and how you train takes care of that. Now if I have a person who is trained and they are on the wrong side of the path, I kind of give them an alternative. I say if you don’t shape up, you’re gone. I’ll do whatever I can to help you, just ask me. But as far as spirituality goes, everybody knows who I am and what I believe. New people would not but would find out soon enough. Being a believer in Jesus, I kind of try to walk that out more than force that on people. But when a person comes in and knows what I am about and asks me questions, that’s when I bring in the spiritual aspect of things. For me, I don’t really push that on people. They will see by who I am. That’s how I would rather teach a person is by my actions. And then by my actions and how my life is going, then that person would come to me and ask me a question about what I believe and what not. Morally, I try to develop people in that respect. You learn in martial arts self-defense and defending your village or country or whatever, and then what has happened because our society is different. But martial arts have stayed. Some of them have really gotten away from the self-defense aspect of it, and do more tournaments with techniques that don’t necessarily work. But they still are developing people in a way that most of them will have a code of ethics in the school. If you are fighting for no reason and hurting people, stealing, anything like that, pretty much every school is probably for the most part deal with that in a similar fashion. You just don’t do that. If you continue to do it, you won’t be part of the school. So as far as the morals in that respect, that gets played out on the floor a lot. You are developing that respect for people, and you learn to help people and be more of a partner as opposed to being just a me, me, me person. And when people start to get into that environment, that kind of changes them in a lot of ways, they become more people thinking than just myself. I think the martial arts kind of plays that out. When speaking in a class I really don’t bring the spiritual aspect into the classroom. Personally I will. But in schools, I won’t. A lot of fighters I have, they like to pray before they fight. We always do that before we fight. Basically that is prayer for safety for both fighters and no one gets hurt, you’ll be able to use your God-given talents to their fullest, and whatever happens, happens. We don’t pray for victory and to be able to dominate my partner. That’s not what it is about. I think if you keep a clean heart and are disciplined in your moral ethical code, that’s just going to bring your martial arts up that much higher because you won’t be inclined to cheat on repetitions. You will try to push yourself when someone tells you to do something and not try to slide out of it. The martial arts really does that.
FS: You talked about unity, how your students seems to work together and try to develop one another and I’m actually seeing that just by being around here that you’ve got people from different disciplines that are training underneath you that are working together and trying to make not only themselves better but the people that are working with them, the other students they are trying to improve their skills as well. You can really see that when you come to this school.
Greg Nelson: That’s one of our sayings here is, coming off the jungle book, the strength of the pack is in the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is in the pack. That’s one of our little creeds that we develop because if an individual is going to get better, the people that he associates with and trains with will also get better and better. If everyone is getting better then each individual is going to get sucked into that mode of training of working hard. That’s exactly what happens. The strength of a student is really predicated upon how good the classroom is and the classroom is going to be defined on how each individual is trying to help and work with his partner and work hard himself so that really it’s a big part of our training here. We really try to develop that attitude in people.
FS: I think some of the strengths in your teaching skills are really shown in the number of top students, top fighters around the world that you are presently training right now. I’m looking at a list here and we have people like Sean Sherk, James Cook, John Renken, Tom Schmitz, Nat McIntyre, Dave Menne, Brad Kohler. This is a huge list of people that are at the top of their field, and they are all coming out of this school, and you really don’t see this kind of thing that often, especially with such a mixed variety of martial arts.
Greg Nelson: At times what you do find is if there is a group of people that excel, it’s usually in the same thing. Like a no holds barred school, so they develop in that arena. Or if it is Thai Boxing, they develop in that arena. But we bring everybody up to that level. We have guys that are world ranked in no holds barred, we’ve got fighters who are top fighters in the US in Thai Boxing, and they are doing two totally different arts, even two different ways of training. So I’ve tried to pass that along to the people that teach and they have developed and brought their own aspect and mentality of how things should be done into the mix as well. So they are able to take a group and build that group us and they don’t need me to be sitting around to manage them. That’s kind of the environment I really like to have is people develop where they themselves through training and through work become trainers themselves. That is usually what has happened. That’s big for me in teamwork. Right away the first day you are here you are holding pads for people. So you learn right away how to kick and punch and hit the pads, but you are immediately shown how to train people also, which is a huge part of it. That’s how people are also tested in that way. That’s again to turn people not only students but they become teachers as well. That’s one thing if you have a triangle you have student, fighter, teacher. My goal if I could do that would be to develop every one of those people to be a student for the rest of their lives—always searching, seeking out new ways to do things, that perpetual kindergartner: everything is new! It would be great to have a group of people like that. Then those people would be able to apply what they know. When I say fighter, I don’t mean that they are always in the ring and fighting, but in the classroom they can really apply what they have learned. Whether it be sparring or live grappling or whatever, they learn enough in the group. Thirdly is the teacher. Not only can they do the skills and perform them, but they can go to another person and teach them. That’s a huge thing to be able to teach people in front of a classroom to do certain techniques because you have to know how to show it and know how to explain it, what is the motivation, what is going to make people want to do this. In there, you’re going to have different people. Some people have to be shown things, some have to be told things, some have to have things done to them before they realize it. So teaching is not an easy task and being a fighter is not either. So all the time, no matter what they are doing—fighting, teaching—they are always training to help other people because they know if I don’t train the people in front of me, they are not going to be good enough to bring you to that next level. So everybody here is about bringing everybody up to that level. Of course, you are going to have a few people that excel out of the group. We’ve been very fortunate to have a great group of guys come through here that have those qualities. Some have left to do their own thing and build their own schools. My hope is that they will be able to do the same things in their own schools, to have the desire to develop people to teach as well as just do. That’s a hard thing to do I think. It’s easy to teach fighters how to fight if they are an athlete. But to bring a person who really doesn’t have a lot of skill and to get them to be able to spar and keep up with other people, that I think is a much greater triumph.
FS: Are there any particular fighters that you’ve trained where you’ve seen that and thought maybe they weren’t the best fighter to begin with and you’ve been able to instill those qualities when you bring them up to that very high level of skill that you have?
Greg Nelson: Yes definitely. One of the primary Thai Boxing instructors when he first came to train in my classes when I was teaching at the Kali group before I opened my own school, he came in and he was so skinny. He didn’t have enough muscle to control where his body went. You didn’t think he would make it. He would train and kept going and going and training and going, and now years and years later he’s one of the instructors at the top. He can keep up with everybody and even in the knee range he can really show people a lot of things because he’s had to work so hard to develop himself. He had to find so many ways to motivate himself that when he teaches people now he knows pretty much every struggle because he had to do that also. As far as the fighters go, we have one student here when he first started here was about 320 pounds, and now he fights at 185. He lost an entire person! He came in and started to fight and lost his first three fights. He got knocked out for two of them, and I think he lost by unanimous decision in the third one. He just kept plugging along, plugging along because he wasn’t really fighting to gain popularity or fame. He was fighting to prove to himself to reach a goal. Now I think he’s won his last nine fights. Still when he’s in the gym, he’s very unassuming when you look at him and train with him. But what he has done is when he gets in the ring, he’s very methodical and he waits for the person to make a mistake and he has the skill level to capitalize on that. It’s great when you see that. For him is a great personal triumph.
FS: Now you’ve won some very impressive titles during your fighting career and I know you won a gold medal in the Brazilian JiuJitsu in 1999, the silver in 2001. And you also won two gold medals at the 2001 grappling games in Los Angeles. Can you describe some of these fights and what was your most difficult match?
Greg Nelson: I would have to say my most difficult match was the first match in the Los Angeles grappling games. The guy was good at defending takedowns and he had a really good guard on his back he could really move well. He was taught be one of the Brazilian black belts and it wasn’t like it was tough in the fact that physically I was worn down and beat, but it took a lot to get the points I needed to win that fight. The reason being when I was training for that fight I had my kids here. Gunner was really young and couldn’t walk yet and Nina was running enough to get into a lot of trouble and danger so I always had to watch them. I would be trying to get a run started because I couldn’t run outside, so I had to condition in the confines of the academy. Family always comes before my training and school, so I would stop and help them, so I never really got to run for that whole tournament. So I was hoping I would be in good enough condition. It was more of a hard battle because I wasn’t conditioned like I should have been. After that first regulation time I was really tired, but from all my other training I just trained not to show it. And I could see he was really tired and then we went into overtime again. I could see he was breathing hard but I kept my face the same, even though inside I was gasping and dying. But I didn’t want to show him and then I could see the guy kind of break and look at me thinking that I wasn’t even tired. I was very tired, but mentally I kept the edge right there, so within about 30 seconds into that overtime I was able to take him down and get passed his guard into a dominant position and won the match. In the finals I was matched with this guy (we were the two oldest guys), we dropped down to the adult division which is 18-30 and I was 36 yr. and he was 44 or 45 yrs. So I guess wisdom and time beat the youth and exuberance that day. It was really funny because the next oldest person was around 27 yr. So that was one of the fights that stick out as being a hard one. It wasn’t because it was so draining, but I really had to put on the game face and hold in a lot of things. I would have loved to put my hands on my knees and breathe hard. But it was good because it allowed me to bring something out that I hadn’t used since I competed in college where you never want to show you are tired unless you are in trouble. As far as fights I’ve only been to one where I bearly won. I had another one where I didn’t understand the scoring yet of the jujitsu. You have advantage points where you haven’t done the move but you are going to get that point which is really 0. But if it’s tied and the other guy has one advantage point over you, he’s going to win. This guy kept doing this one move that was giving an advantage and we were tied and I had no clue. Over time he got four advantage points. And they kept saying, you’ve got to go, you’ve got to go. And I was thinking I was really dominating this guy. They said I was behind by advantage and I said, what?! So then I had to move and really get going and I would reverse the guy and got the two points I needed and 15 seconds later the time was up. That was kind of a difficult one because guys are yelling to you and I didn’t know what my problem was! He was beating me and it was 2 to 2 and he had like 4 advantage point and I had one, so the match would have been over and he would have won. Because he bringing his leg over my leg which I thought was great because I was trying to move off that, but really it wasn’t great. So that was a learning experience because each area has a different way of doing things. You just have to figure it out!